GST 一站式問答

50912cmea

@statement
@keatlim77
@vrz
@ManLoong

大大们，现在来看。。。Supply and redemption of non-monetary voucher, 请看楼上 Figure 9 on Page 30

一个 supply of "intended and underlying" goods or services, 有三个 parties, i.e. issuer, customer and redeemer 和三个 events as below:

1. Supply of non-monetary voucher for cash or free by issuer to customer;
2. Supply of "intended and underlying" goods or services by redeemer to customer; and
3. Supply of non-monetary voucher for cash by redeemer to issuer

同样的。。。只是一个 supply of "intended and underlying" goods or services 衍生出三个 supply transactions which are or are potentially subject to GST...

therefore in order to avoid more than 1 time of GST, 两个 events 必须被 disregarded. 那两个呢？

However...没有了 "cash coupon is medium of exchange" 的 exclusion 理由，GST is accountable on event 1 instead. Events 2 and 3 are disregarded for GST purpose.

请看 Valuation (revised as at 21 March 2014) Page 26

48. The sale of non-monetary voucher which is redeemable for goods or services is as a supply of services. GST should be charged when such voucher is sold. When the non-monetary voucher is redeemed for a goods or services, no GST is due on the redemption. In the event that the supply of goods or services requires additional cash to top up the voucher, the additional cash payment is subjected to GST.

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如何把 GST treatments on "supply of (non-monetary voucher for goods only) as free gift, i.e. event 1" fits into Scope of Supply 的 tests 里？

1) No consideration >> not a supply >> deemed supply? >> if no (i.e. gift rule <500) >> outside scope of supply

2) No consideration >> not a supply >> deemed supply? >> if yes (i.e. gift rule >500) >> within scope of supply and subject to GST

请看 Page 29 of Retailing guide revised as at 30 December 2013

(b) Non-monetary voucher for goods (redeem for goods)

(ii) If the issuance of a non-monetary voucher is made without a consideration, the issuance of the voucher is subject to the gift rule. If the value of the goods stated in the voucher is more than RM500, the issuance of the voucher is subject to GST. If the value of the goods is up to RM500, the issuance of the voucher is not subject to GST. For example, a business issues a gift voucher for free to its customers to promote his business. The gift voucher states the bearer is entitled to a glass mug with a value of RM10.00. The issuance of such voucher is not subject to GST.

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不过，有个问题在 "supply of (non-monetary voucher for services only) as free gift, i.e. event 1"

请看 Page 29 of Retailing guide revised as at 30 December 2013

(a) Non-monetary voucher for services (redeem for services)

(ii) If the issuance of a non-monetary voucher for services is made without any consideration, the issuance of the voucher is not a supply and no GST is chargeable. For example, a business issues free cinema tickets to its customers.

难道 gift rule only applies to physical goods?

Gift rule in GST Act 2014 as below:

5. (1) Subject to subparagraph (2), where goods forming part of the assets of a business are transferred or disposed of by or under the directions of the person carrying on the business so as no longer to form part of those assets, whether or not for a consideration, the transfer or disposal is a supply of goods by the person.

(2) Subparagraph (1) does not apply where the transfer or disposal is -
(a) a gift of goods made in the course or furtherance of the business made to the same person in the same year where the total cost to the donor is not more than five hundred ringgit; or


那 for non-monetary voucher for services only as free gift, where should the GST be accounted for 呢？Retailing guide revised as at 30 December 2013 里没讲明！ 难道是漏洞？

ManLoong

50912cmea 发表于 27-8-2014 12:52 PM
不在 RCM Industry Guides 的 web page as at 26-8-2014, 所以不懂是不是 finalised 了。。。
...

对，这是正确做法，我们只能提供general advice, 没有收费，所以最下面那行是友情提醒。

bwei

50912cmea 发表于 27-8-2014 01:01 PM
@statement
@keatlim77
@vrz

If the issuance of a non-monetary voucher for services is made without any consideration, the issuance of the voucher is not a supply and no GST is chargeable. For example, a business issues free cinema tickets to its customers.

难道 gift rule only applies to physical goods?


如果是那样，那么餐厅是不是service？ （如果不是，当初就不应该归类收service tax）
那么换句话说，如果免费提供餐厅 non-monetary voucher / free meal 就应该是 not a supply 也不应该成为 deem supply， 对吗？

coolly

vrz 发表于 27-8-2014 01:27 AM
可以问你老师，对 Tuition Center & Pharmacy 的看法吗？std rate / exempt supply / mixed supply ? :ha ...

tuition centre应该会比较明显是 standard rated, 因为大部分你都不会在教育法令下注册，pharmacy我觉得还是有点争议，所以要等最后的 exempt order才能确定。

coolly

50912cmea 发表于 27-8-2014 12:50 PM
Partial Exemption (revised as at 4 November 2013) Page 3

A person who makes both taxable and ex ...

要一起跟别的guide读，只要不是 financial institution, interest income这些属于 incidental exempt supplies, 不会造成一间公司变成mixed supplier.

vrz

50912cmea 发表于 27-8-2014 01:01 PM
@statement
@ManLoong
@Aquariel

难道 gift rule only applies to physical goods?

就是这个，我很想弄清楚。我知道 Supply 【free service】 to connected person 是要算 GST，但是有规定多少钱吗？它是不是 under Gift rule 限定在 RM500？

如果 Gift rule 这是 for gift on goods，那么以下的 【gift on service】要怎样诠释 ？

我手上有两本书有关 【free service】，有两个答案，想问大家的意见 ：
1）一间足疗公司，每个星期去老人院提供免费足疗按摩，算 GST吗？
答案：有，虽然服务不是“卖”出去，而是捐出去，但只要服务提供出去，供应就构成了。
（虽然 supply 产生了，但不是也要看 consideration 吗 ？）

2）在按摩院消费4次以上，赠送免费颈项和肩膀按摩，这赠送要算 GST吗？
答案：没有，因为是 Gift of service (not goods) so no subject to GST.

两个都是大同小异的 free service，为什么两个不同答案 ？

谢谢讨论。

Eva.acctg

coolly 发表于 28-8-2014 01:10 AM
tuition centre应该会比较明显是 standard rated, 因为大部分你都不会在教育法令下注册，pharmacy我觉得还 ...

coolly~

tuition centre~ 在教育法令下注册 等于 注册教育局执照吗？

如果是等于~ 好像开到一定小小数量的学生。
如果要开店面是"tuition centre", 都要跟教育局申请执照~

ManLoong

coolly 发表于 28-8-2014 01:10 AM
tuition centre应该会比较明显是 standard rated, 因为大部分你都不会在教育法令下注册，pharmacy我觉得还 ...

我在网站搜索到的资料显示PHARMACY 确实有争议性。在RMC 还没有发出指南之前，去年卫生部长澄清, 药类的产品是属于EXEMPT SUPPLY，但后来发现RMC出炉的指南是在STANDARD RATED，大家都感觉被骗了。

xloongx

aidenx 发表于 28-10-2013 02:41 PM
楼主说来说去也只是表面东西吧了, 能来点实据的吗?

我举个例子, 产品A现在的零售价是$100, 假设从厂家, ...

厂家，批发商，零售商可以向kastam拿回6% gst的，这样消费者不就给了17块的tax

这就是利民政策？

重商轻民！如果商家再起价不就惨了～

xloongx

vrz 发表于 26-8-2014 11:39 AM
GST=Service Tax

Service Tax 不等于 Service Charge，很多人到现在还搞不懂。

某店没注明有service charge 我不给他们可以报警吗我有罪吗

xloongx

vrz 发表于 26-8-2014 11:35 AM
总营业额 ！平均一个月 RM 42,000 ，一天 RM 1600 就中了，所以很多小贩都中。

更恐怖的是有些 enterp ...

问一下～报了就可以拿回之前进货被抽6%gst的钱吗？

statement

vrz 发表于 28-8-2014 01:34 AM
就是这个，我很想弄清楚。我知道 Supply 【free service】 to connected person 是要算 GST，但是有规定 ...

第一个应该不算是supply, 因为不符合consideration. (或者这是ZERO RATE Supply? Out of scope? 还是干脆amount = 0, $0 x 6% = $0)

第二个属于FOC范围了, 但好像也可以当Gift处理, 不管前者或后者都要计算GST, 除非一开始店家是以"配套"方式出售 eg. $1000 for 4次脚底按摩 + 颈项和肩膀按摩.


对了, 谁能提供FOC的资料?

ninkygirl

Aquariel 发表于 26-8-2014 06:31 PM
如果年营业额不到5 million是每3个月submit。
你现在是basic那些不明白，还是那些比较detail的不懂？

...

我是detail的不明白，之前去听过custom办的，都是讲表面的。
我怕做账那里而已，很多中文讲座在KL，而我在JB

50912cmea

bwei 发表于 27-8-2014 10:15 PM
If the issuance of a non-monetary voucher for services is made without any consideration, the issu ...

如果“免费提供餐厅 non-monetary voucher / free meal” 是 supply of non-monetary voucher for services only as free gift 的话，the issuance of the voucher is not a supply and no GST is chargeable.

得注意是不是 supply of free service to connected person... if yes >> deemed supply >> within scope of supply

Valuation (revised as at 21 March 2014) Page 19

Supply of services made for no consideration is deemed as supply of service if the supply is made by a taxable person to a connected person not entitled to claim input tax (refer to paragraph 5 of the First Schedule, GST Act).

The value of the supply with no consideration is determined by the open market value of that supply.

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RCM 要怎样 tackle 这个？

The issuer or the redeemer 得 keep a register for supply or redemption of free non-monetary voucher for services only?

50912cmea

vrz 发表于 28-8-2014 01:34 AM
就是这个，我很想弄清楚。我知道 Supply 【free service】 to connected person 是要算 GST，但是有规定 ...

大大，您的问题太棒了！

我知道 Supply 【free service】 to connected person 是要算 GST，但是有规定多少钱吗？它是不是 under Gift rule 限定在 RM500？

Valuation (revised as at 21 March 2014) Page 19

Supply of free service to connected person... if yes >> deemed supply >> within scope of supply (value of supply = OMV and GST on value of supply)

相信应该没规定多少钱，也不是 under Gift rule 限定在 RM500...

If the Act allows for the supply of free non-monetary voucher for services only, which is based on arm-length transaction, is without GST 的话，那就不应该再被 limited by Gift rule and its counter measure of supply of free service to connected person should not have its limit on amount also.

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1）一间足疗公司，每个星期去老人院提供免费足疗按摩，算 GST吗？
答案：有，虽然服务不是“卖”出去，而是捐出去，但只要服务提供出去，供应就构成了。
（虽然 supply 产生了，但不是也要看 consideration 吗 ？）

可能两种情况下。。。

Scope of supply 左边 - no consideration >> not a supply >> deemed supply? 不懂什么东东？又被 deemed as supply >> within scope of supply and GST

Scope of supply 右边 - the “服务” itself 是 consideration >> supply of “不懂什么东东” in return of 足疗公司的“服务” consideration? 又被 deemed as there is a supply >> within scope of supply and GST

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2）在按摩院消费4次以上，赠送免费颈项和肩膀按摩，这赠送要算 GST吗？
答案：没有，因为是 Gift of service (not goods) so no subject to GST.

两种情况下。。。

Scope of supply 左边 - no consideration >> not a supply >> deemed supply? gift rule only applies to physical goods so 不中；supply of free service to connected person also 不中 >> is not deemed supply >> outside scope of supply and no GST

Scope of supply 右边 - the “免费颈项和肩膀按摩服务” itself 是 consideration >> supply of “不懂什么东东” in return of 按摩院的“免费颈项和肩膀按摩服务” consideration? 顾客的 supply of “在按摩院消费4次以上”？ 好像很难成立，之前的4次消费都有个自的 supply of service, consideration paid and GST charge >> 不被 deemed as there is a supply >> outside scope of supply and no GST




















再看回。。。If the Act allows for the supply of free non-monetary voucher for services only, which is based on arm-length transaction, is without GST 的话。。。

and the supply of free non-monetary voucher for services only = supply of free services only;

那是不是也可以是。。。the Act allows for the supply of free services only, which is based on arm-length transaction, is without GST? 反之，那如果不是 arm-length transaction 的话，像 supply of free service to connected person, 就中 GST 了，那大大们，您说“足疗公司每个星期去老人院提供免费足疗按摩”该如何做呢？

vrz

@statement @ManLoong @50912cmea @Aquariel

请问【没有】注册的向【有注册】的拿货，当然不可以扣 input tax，那么这个 input tax put as Expenses 或 COGS ？这个 expenses 可以扣 income tax 吗？Exempt Supply 也是不可以扣 input tax，也是一样 under GST Expenses 吗？Tax Deductable ?

Blocked Input Tax 又如何呢？可以扣所得税吗？

vrz

50912cmea 发表于 28-8-2014 03:09 PM
“足疗公司每个星期去老人院提供免费足疗按摩”该如何做呢？

哈哈，真是左右为难，向左又不是，向右又不是

我是站在 Gift of service 不等于 Gift rule 来看，是不应该有 GST。

书写，要 GST是因为 [use for other than business]，但是 RMC Guideline 只说 Goods use for other than business 要 GST，因为有 Gift Rule，但是没有说 Service use for other than business 也要 GST，只解释 Service free to connected person 要 GST，那么 to 客户呢，要不要 GST 呢？

@coolly，你应该知道我讲的那个 example是来自哪本书，你有任何看法 ？谢谢！

兔皇后

想请问懂得Online register GST Account的朋友，可以解释一下这些是填什么？


Appointed Date是指什么日期？


Fianancial Year End Month 是选 12-December吗？
Total Turnover (RM) 是不是指全年加起来的总Sales ？(根据去年的account report?)

谢谢各位大大～～

123.

屋子和车子会有GST吗？

Aquariel

vrz 发表于 28-8-2014 04:45 PM
@statement @ManLoong @50912cmea @Aquariel

请问【没有】注册的向【有注册】的拿货，当然不可以扣 inp ...

类似Sales Tax，它算Purchase Cost，不用拆开来进。
（我Assume你进stock的时候会把input tax算进你的unit cost里）

Income tax的眼中没有blocked input tax这回事，只有分是不是for business use罢了。
Expenses claim 不到input tax的话，那些GST不要拆开来，没什么意义。

Example: Entertainment你要add back 50%，Income tax是看整张单来算的，所以50% of GST paid要add back。

若其他人觉得不对，大家一起讨论讨论下。