关於中国气功

华侨

可以说是无为法？
类似自发功？
WANAKA 发表于 8-5-2010 12:48 PM

不是的！是佛家功的一种。

WANAKA

陆锦川太极理论非常高明而且非常欣赏。

他写太极无为法非常高明还提到自发功。。。

请问陆锦川是真实＂道家太极门＂吗？

他是我最赏识。。。。

WANAKA

陆锦川先生简介

   陆锦川先生是古道家太极门独脉传人，精通道学、佛学、中医、武学，乃当今著名的国学大师。父师陆明，乃玄一先生，世代书香，武医传家，故幼承庭训，经文习武，内承家传旧学，外习学校新学，于少年之时，既已透破有碍。稍长更外出游学，参访明德，历练世行，饱经磨难，终能圆成道果，博通内外，学贯古今。

先生本业岐黄，弱冠便能悬壶济世，不仅精通中医，了解西医，业医四十年来，尤以善治疑难痼疾著称。

   为弘扬中国传统文化，先生勤奋笔耕。先后出版的著作有：“仿佛谈道录”之《浅谈修炼》、《菩提与无为》、《无中生有》、《静极生动的能量》、《圆融的太极妙理》共五册，以及《慧能大师传》、《中医望诊相法秘要》等等〔部分著作可于新华书店购买〕。

论佛道  

有人说中华道学是外“道”，我听了心里不是滋味！作为大道宗门传人，作为颇为了知佛内涵的道者，作为能写《慧能大师传》的我，闻此妄斥，也忍不住要讲几句。

道，立于中华，它可是在我们自己本土文化中生长、发展的本土道学，而就其内涵成就而言，中华之道学理行即于上古时便并不比佛学差！你看，佛法西来时，中华道学文化在译释佛经时，总体而言，已然是庖丁解牛，游刃有余！间或见有不逮，然又时复过之，即此便知两者道行学术之相应水准。设若更以欧美文化译释佛经道书，则必隔鞋搔痒，多所不达！故今若衡度二者，相较互议，是所谓：

异观之则各有所长，同观之则共臻妙如！

故我昔尝平心而论，道佛两宗，互补短长，各有千秋，实是难并优劣。今之中华佛学，本亦已更中华文化之哺育，既已为中华之佛学，则已同为中华大道之学，尚何须见外而妄分彼此？

呜呼！两千年来，道佛并传神州大地，就佛学道学而言，两者早已相因相袭，相融相会，取长补短，难能截分！此间如若真要分个彼此，即就其佛学在中国之发展成长而言，则西来佛法能在中华兴起，并由成长而至创新发展，殆有赖于中华道学及诸家之道学思维者良多！则道学斯由佛学继母欤？吁！今其一旦成人，便尔离哺忘亲，如是反齿相报，此情此境，怎不叫人寒心、憾心呢？


噫！当年佛学西来，中化道学甚能容佛入弘中华，道胸德怀，融纳自如；那么今天之佛门，为什么反不能容让于道，与之相容并存？难道，这是佛祖大道之本义？当然，骂道门是“外道”的释子，虽是不少，可毕竟还不能代表佛家，我相信这也不会是佛门所有达者们的观点，因为达悟之人已证大道，还会作如是说？这大道，哪会有什么学派呢？这里，我不过是因为听了如许言指，借此以稍舒这不平而已。

raymondlim

陆锦川太极理论非常高明而且非常欣赏。

他写太极无为法非常高明还提到自发功。。。

请问陆锦川是真实 ...
WANAKA 发表于 9-5-2010 10:37 AM

他直接把现代气功批评地一文不值，舌抵上腭，意守丹田。

WANAKA

他直接把现代气功批评地一文不值，舌抵上腭，意守丹田。
raymondlim 发表于 10-5-2010 03:20 PM

    他说得非常有理。。。

“意守丹田”的说法不是正传
意守丹田，作为一种修为的方法，近年来在我们的气功界里，基本上已经是天经地义的了，几乎没有人会去怀疑。我们曾经做过一个统计，在近些年出版的气功书中，有百分之八九十，全都要求修学者意守丹田。这也就是花说，将近百分之九十的功法书和气功功法，在讲求意守丹田。可见它的影响之大。

那么“意守丹田”这个词到底对不对呢 ？

我可以告诉大家这句话，在正宗的传统修为的方法中，并没有这种说法。所以，这个说法是错误的。

“丹田”一词的来历
“丹田”这个词，是出自道家的丹鼎门。丹鼎门是中国道家著名的修仙门派。

中国自秦汉以降，人们就开始对炼丹很重视，“丹田”这个词也就越用越多。在我们的古书上和古代的小说上，凡是讲到修仙，几乎无一不讲到炼丹。

“丹田”一词，现在我们所能见到的最早的史料记载，是《黄帝内经》。在它的《遗篇•本病论》中，讲到“神游上丹田”。这一篇的成书可能晚于黄帝内经，可能是后人补的，但不会太晚。

所谓“丹”，就是结丹；所谓“田”，就是结丹的田。煮饭需要锅，结丹要有田。谷子、稻子都是从田里长出来的，所以古人就用田来比喻丹生长的地方。《黄庭经》中就讲到“丹田之中精气微”。

丹鼎门的炼丹
炼丹要有火。所以丹鼎门有个传统的术语，叫“安炉起火”。要起火，就要先把炉灶安起来。在汉代，灶和锅还没有分家，二者还是一体，这个东西就叫“鼎”。丹鼎门产生在秦汉时期，因为那个时候灶和锅没有分家，所以它才叫“丹鼎门”，而不叫“丹炉门”或“丹锅门”。

丹鼎门的炼丹是从外丹逐渐变为内丹的，因此许多术语都是从外丹移过来的。“安炉起火”也是从外丹移过来的名词。

所谓练内丹，就是用自己体内的精、气、神作为炼丹的条件。这里，“安炉”和“起火”就是丹鼎门的正传口诀。

它的含义是把“炉子”安好，把“火”点起来，再把“药”放进去，才能开始炼丹。

这虽然看上去，意思好像大致也相当于现在所流传的“意守丹田”，但是实际上，它的位置、它的本质和它的内涵，都不一样。

在人体里面怎么“安炉”呢？这就是老子讲的：“多言数穷，不如守中。”“守中”这个词就是“安炉起火”的理学内涵。它的位置在身体的肾前脐后，离下坎上。但关键是它位居虚中，不落表触。所以真正的丹田位置，要老师带功的时候给你点窍，从头上点到那个位置，这叫“下种”。你有感觉了，这才能炼丹，不然你没办法炼，你自己是找不到那个“虚中”的。这就是“先觉虚中，后行实存”。

我们平常人的感觉都在皮肤的表层，往里面你是感觉不到的，所以必须由老师给你点。点到这个位置以后，你意守在这里。意到气到，气盛了以后，气有余，便是火，就产生了火，这才能开始炼丹。这一步功夫就称为＂筑基”，也就 是奠定了一个炼丹的基础

丹尚未生，岂可指出
在修为中，先要有丹，以后才会有田。没有丹，也就不会有田。这个田，就是结丹之田。

现在那些气功，一上来就让人家守丹田。你没有丹，哪里来的田呢？并且你知道真正的丹田在哪儿吗？丹鼎门的正传有这么一句话，叫做“人身无处不丹田”。等你炼出了丹，那么它落在哪里，哪里才是你的丹田

丹鼎门秘诀讲：“浮自非丹，落黄是田。”

我年轻的时候曾经拜过一个丹鼎门的老师，所以我知道这个秘诀。

这句话是讲，当你修炼到有白光的时候，丹气还在走，那还不是丹。飞丹的时候以为是丹，实际上是气，要等它定型了以后，看它落在哪个位置上。落到脚心是涌泉丹，落到掌心是劳宫丹，落在喉咙下是颌下丹。落到一个位置后还要生住根，这个地方才是你的丹田。如果丹还在到处跑，像鸟儿还未下蛋一样，哪有鸟巢呢？这样你就还不能知道你的对丹田在哪儿。

显然，“意守丹田”这个口诀是错误的。

http://bbs.renlong.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=163253

洁净清新

I find the discussion on 丹田 very interesting, let's further discuss on this! If you find my understanding is not correct, I would appreciate it if you all could correct me.

我们的身体里面的奇经八脉有不同的function。有一些channels 是特别用来reserve qi的，比如任督二脉(form two channels of the奇经, qi reservoir)。For example, there are some locations at the 任脉 where qi can accummulate，such as会阴、气海、坍zhong、印堂等。

通常qi channels flow to the limbs (which form the八脉, the八脉channels connect to internal organs too)cannot store qi, they are meant to regulate  qi in our whole body as well as internal organs.百会(located at the top of the head)、劳宫(located at the palms)and涌泉(located at the feet)are normally called "gates"，which connect the energy of our body to the surroundings. There are all together five "gates".

Basically, not only the Taoists talks about丹田. Even the yogi or yoga practitioners talk about chakras [which are the power centres of prana ("breath"，气)], which I think the location of chakras are exactly the same as 丹田。I find the Indian's yoga concept and theories are surprisingly  similar to the Chinese qigong.

WANAKA

That should be no questions about qi store in 丹田 or chakras.
We should put more focus in "form qi" or "formless qi" during practicsing qi gong.
with form qi gong we use mind to control qi's direction which is not correct way.

Whereas formless qi gong is let the qi direct the movement which mention by Master 陆锦川. His theory of Tai Chi is very deep & useful which previously should kept as top secret.

raymondlim

他说得非常有理。。。

“意守丹田”的说法不是正传
意守丹田，作为一种修为的方法，近年来在 ...

WANAKA 发表于 11-5-2010 08:09 AM

其实，气功界的门派说法有不同。我们以效果来证实。

对我来说，丹田是一个区域，当你集中在那边，你身体的温度也会不同。冷热也不同。
当你意守刚刚好，你的温度会刚刚好，身体舒服，入静。
当然，控制身体温度不只是丹田位置，意守方法，呼吸，手印，和其他方法也是控制火候。

洁净清新

回复 47# WANAKA

I see I see...

If I am not mistaken, I think you are referring to zi fa dong gong, is it?

Previously I practice zi fa dong gong too... There is no mention of dan tian in zi fa dong gong. Yes, you are correct, no need to emphasise on putting your mind on the dan tian. It is the qi that naturally generates movements and help your body achieve balance.

I think different practitioners (or even the same practitioner) incorporate different methods to achieve their different objectives. Therefore, we can find some people use mind to focus and direct, some people just let go...

洁净清新

Based on my experience, dan tian does exist....I would like to share one real life story.

When I was young, I practiced zhan zhuang. One day, my master stood directly in front of me to correct my posture. My master is a perfectionist, always correct my posture. Then suddenly I could feel my master dan tian, a very tiny spot at the lower abdomen....like a guli, vibrating and shrinking, very powerful....Actually, my master's dan tian at that time directly pointed to my own dan tian at lower abdomen and make my dan tian shrink too.

However, my dan tian is not small, is as big as an egg, but not powerful at all....

WANAKA

回复  WANAKA

I see I see...

If I am not mistaken, I think you are referring to zi fa dong gon ...
洁净清新 发表于 11-5-2010 12:03 PM

    Exactly. Zi Fa gong is emphasis on formless & let it nature qi.

But when we need to help someone for qi treatment we need to use mind to direct the said qi.

How brother feel when practising "Zhi Fa Gong"? how long been practised?

But Master 陆锦川 is more than qi gong as well as "zhi fa gong".
Is called 性命双修。。

Qi gong fans MUST read.

WANAKA

陆锦川  has written 5 very important book which MUST read by qi gong fans.

I been read many qi gong book & his the best & easy to understand.
"Zhi Fa gong" is clearly explained by professor Taiwan Lin where we can buy from market.

And even prof. Lin also said he respect to 陆锦川..

WANAKA

The sensitivity or feeling during practising qi gong although is interesting but not encourage to declare public which may caused intentionally other to follow which is not the real qi's direction.

洁净清新

回复 51# WANAKA

Yes.

Different masters have different approach. Some masters specifically use qi transmission technique, massage technique, etc. to cure patients, like what my master previously did to me.

Some masters can also use his own qi to trigger zi fa dong gong in their patients' body and let the patients' own qi to do the healing....Sometimes patients practice zi fa dong gong themselves, if the master wants the patients to speed up the recovery, he can transmit qi to the patient and the patient sways and moves more vigorously in zi fa dong gong to clear qi channel blockages.

But I think practitioners should be more cautious sometimes...the mind must be aware and has confidence that everything is under control. And also the zi fa dong gong cleansing process must not be too fast and deep until the practitioner feel extremely bad. Progress slowly and steadily is quite important.

WANAKA

回复  WANAKA

Yes.

Different masters have different approach. Some masters specifically use q ...
洁净清新 发表于 11-5-2010 12:26 PM

    Totally agreed. Especially when come to a certain stage of practising "zhi fa gong" is dangerous & need someone to guard. I remember during 2 week of practsing "zhi fa gong" my body doing self spinning about 2 hours non -stop for 2 weeks which is the most difficult part i faced & been falled down few time.

洁净清新

回复 55# WANAKA

Haha. Do you practice at public park?



I do not practice zi fa dong gong anymore. Zi fa dong gong may seem simple (but not easy) superficially, but actually the practice and concept is actually not as simple as commonly thought and written by the articles on the webpages.

I am more extra careful now as I find there is a grave hidden danger in zi fa dong gong...If a practitioner is careless, zi fa dong gong can create greater problems and imbalance which the practitioner is not aware of. Sometimes even experienced practitioners are not mindful enough to heed the warnings and their state of mind when practising and then they make really big mistakes...

Honestly speaking (no offence), I find there is a big missing link...somewhere is incomplete in the method itself. I know there is a problem when the practitioner proceed to a certain level, but I am still not very confirmed about the root cause of the problem...I will share with you next time once I find out. Or maybe Sifus 华侨 and Wanaka can help to clear my doubts on this?

We are very fortunate as there is a lot of good qi gong documentation and articles have been shared over the world through traditional and electronic media. It is even more fortunate that we Chinese, still have chances to read read first hand the Chinese articles written by many experienced masters. Furthermore, there are still a lot of people know Classical Chinese (文言文) and many research and interpretations has been done on those old qi gong documents.

The situation is different in yoga. Yoga texts and classics are in Sanskrit. Sanskrit is not a common language in the Indian society, not many people know how to read Sanskrit. Those who know Sanskrit are mostly Hindu priests. What I can do for the moment is to research on the writtings of some yoga gurus and practitioners who know English. I find a lot of similarity in yoga and qigong when I crosscheck the theories and concepts of these two arts eventhough their ways of practicing is very different.

WANAKA

回复  WANAKA

Haha. Do you practice at public park?



I do not practice zi fa dong gong anym ...
洁净清新 发表于 11-5-2010 01:50 PM

    Yes Im been practise "Zhi Fa gong" at public park when i reached a stage that movement is soft & gentle.
Is really wasted if give up from practising this qi gong.
Although this qi gong did give many adnormal(un-usual)movement which may mis-understand by those new practiser. But if u really study the theory & concept in more detail that is no hidden danger.
Qi gong MUST practise in "qi gong condition" with no mind of controlling otherwise that qi gong is so called physical exercise rather than exerise internal qi.

U will find really interesting in practising where at beginning stage the movement is very interesting from hand, leg movement ,spinning, hand can collect qi from tree, eye can turning clock & anti clock..tai chi.ect....

If u really qi gong fan, after study many qi gong book, majority those master aware of the exist of "zhi fa gong" where they may named it differently.

Anyway , most important of practise qi gong is for health. The latest qi gong after many years of human try and formed this kind of qi gong is the best way so what for we don't follow?
No matter what name of qi gong is it the concept is the hint & to gain the maximum benefits from it.

Qi gong is collection of human experince where they been go in the wrong ways & now we all benefits by choosing the best way.

WANAKA

anyway what is ur worry about "zhi fa gong"?


Brother do make use of "chinese translator",  this forum only allow using chinese.....

otherwise our statements will be deleted.

Do continous sharing & caring.

The "chinese translator" can find from the upper icon, the chinese word input can use english to tranlate, very easy...

华侨

陆陆锦川太极理论非常高明而且非常欣赏。

他写太极无为法非常高明还提到自发功。。。

请问陆锦川是真实＂道家太极门＂吗？

他是我最赏识。。。。
WANAKA 发表于 9-5-2010 10:37 AM

是有＂道家太极门＂这个说法, 是所谓三宗五祕密之一。
不过也有一些传统门派否认有这种宗派。

华侨

他说得非常有理。。。

“意守丹田”的说法不是正传
意守丹田，作为一种修为的方法，近年来在我们的气功界里，基本上已经是天经地义的了，几乎没有人会去怀疑。我们曾经做过一个统计，在近些年出版的气功书中，有百分之八九十，全都要求修学者意守丹田。这也就是花说，将近百分之九十的功法书和气功功法，在讲求意守丹田。可见它的影响之大。
WANAKA 发表于 11-5-2010 08:09 AM

一家之见罢了!
内丹功讲究丹田的大有人在，武当張三丰就有"调息凝神入气穴"的说法，气穴即是丹田。全真教、龙门派、南派丹道都有丹田说法。