freelancers 的客户乱开价

白痴中的天才

大马暂时有没有freelancer联盟站或论坛？
我不清楚也没去搜寻过，感觉上cari这边的软件研发专区好像不是很热闹，如果有必要可以结合各位志同道合的朋友一起研究讨论也不错啊！

V4ndrake

原帖由 exiang 于 6-7-2006 04:19 PM 发表
当客户乱开价时，freelancers 们有必要一起制定一个STANDARD 的价钱。
一下系统开 RM8000, 实在是太侮辱了……

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1. I ...

酱不然要收多少才是正常的？！
cover 什么cost？
虽然我是觉得8k也不是很多啦，可能只够cover你买development tools s/w 的价钱罢了（可能还不够）

八一下

8years

now everybody is using php mysql, developement tool is free. Flash or Dreameawer can use RM5 at house (freelance), 5 game is cost only RM2000 or less, using falsh to produce simple game(not complehensive), download ringtone just a upload/download function.
other is standard function. This deal is ok. For outside malaysia, there is a standard freelance market. Programmer expert like us always duplicate project and code only, so all the feature for us very simple, 1 days can create all feature. Thats why got this kind of deal. go google and search for freelance then you will see more case wosrt than this and yet many people willing to take the job.

hui_wooi

1 days can create all feature？
天才！天才！

8years

hohoho, not genuis, because all is build in, cause shopping cart is standard feature, we had build the class for it, table structure, programming is all same, only product and interface is not same. if anybody do many web application project then they will know. ASP.NET only give you drag and drop text box and object. PHP give you all type ready make class to build your application. copy paste and you will get it. Search freelance in google and see how competitive in International market, one day consider slow, some even said one hour (copy old project, change a few picture), gaoding, database no need change cause same. Easy money, right? now you know why so low price also got many people want to do. Nobody in freelance world trying charge client counting from zero code to end of application time frame, you can never get job in international market, malaysia still can cause freelance market is still not professional.

goatstudio

原帖由 8years 于 22-8-2006 05:07 PM 发表
Nobody in freelance world trying charge client counting from zero code to end of application time frame, you can never get job in international market

没办法认同... 市场被搞滥是一回事...
但 Freelance 不能拿高价钱... 不能在国际市场这样做... 这不是真实的实情...
最起码, 在新加坡不是这样... 要看你的客户是谁, 要看你认识谁... 要看你做什么作业... Freelance... 不只限于做网站;

当一些公司找不到人来做特殊的任务, 也会找 freelancer, 这时候 Freelancer 的身价会水涨船高... 我的朋友可以一整年在为一间公司做 freelance, 原因就在于他懂别人所不懂的... 如果他只懂 download oss code 然后 modify 然后卖出去... 就象你这样说... 他遇到的竞争将会非常大...

OSS 的游戏... 不能就这样被滥用...

8years

for sure what you said is true. business mean who you know, not what technic you know. business doesnt mean that you know open source and the open source can do what client want, with you are lowest price you will get the job. business is still who you know and what is your relationship with them.
same system can sell different price not because of feature, is because of many politic and relationship issue. i am businessman, i know this very well. Example i quote for a company full system RM35K, internal people quote RM50K they still get, with all same feature, so what you can do about it?

V4ndrake

原帖由 8years 于 22-8-2006 08:08 AM 发表
now everybody is using php mysql, developement tool is free. Flash or Dreameawer can use RM5 at house (freelance), 5 game is cost only RM2000 or less, using falsh to produce simple game(not compleh ...

有时候用盗版软件好像是在强奸知识产权，而且日后我也可能会投身到这个行业，用盗版软件会让我想到如果以后人家用我写的软件，但是是盗版的，那时候我会怎样？

而且我刚刚做完一份ASP.NET的Assignment，一个简单的页面都要花我数小时才能够做完（虽然不排除之后我熟练过后会更快），flash我没做过，不过弄一个game应该也同样要大概几小时的时间吧。死了那么多脑细胞才换来那两千块甚至更少好像不太值得，扣除development tool的cost加上电费加上拉拉杂杂的东西……好像剩不多哦？

至于说classes的reusability……不知道你是怎样算，是不是用得越多，它就价值depreciate越多？虽然还是做得到你要的效果？如果是这样，为什么classes要一直循环再用？有点不解……

当然，我只是很鸡婆的一位在籍学生，我只是想知道为什么而已……

[ 本帖最后由 V4ndrake 于 23-8-2006 02:11 AM 编辑 ]

8years

now outside cari makan is not easy. class doesnt mean the more you use the less value. it only mean the more master you are the more low price you can accept....WHY? because the more master you are the faster you can produce an application. Remember programmer salary count by time you use to produce an application. any apllication you think you will charge RM8000, because you need to spend 1 month doing and 20 days do research. for expert they only need 5 days, are they going to charge RM8000? no, because market very competitive, so they will only charge rm5000 or less

exiang

那么看来，每个FREELANCER 拿了 PROJECT 都 OUTSOURCE 到中国去吧...不用做工又有钱赚， WIN WIN SITUATION。

从软件外表，客户或许看不出什么分别，但到了重要时刻，软件的素质好坏马上显露出来。当然，这或许是编程员的执著;而在商业上，价钱和开发时间永远都是排第一的....

bins_188

原帖由 exiang 于 23-8-2006 02:36 PM 发表
那么看来，每个FREELANCER 拿了 PROJECT 都 OUTSOURCE 到中国去吧...不用做工又有钱赚， WIN WIN SITUATION。

从软件外表，客户或许看不出什么分别，但到了重要时刻，软件的素质好坏马上显露出来。当然，这或许 ...

个人觉得坚持相当重要。
因为在恶性竞争的环境，勉为其难的接下低利润PROJECT。
绝对会影响输出品质。

当输出品质搞坏了，
则曾经做过所有的努力，其信誉和品牌效应也都没了。

持续的恶性循环下去，只会造成身价越来越低。
越来越无法在环境生存。
最后就真的只能 OUTSOURCE 出去赚些价差吃泡面。

8years

freelancer not really had any brandname, thats why price is cheap, normally customer also not stupid, when they see freelancer, they want some prove from you to show you really can do it. example your previous project, or sample of the application that he require. But malaysia client not so clever, they only see price, nobody care for quality, they pay little but expect you to give 100% quality, because payment is on their hand. So, good customer also is the customer that know little bit about IT, then we consider that as good customer. knowing too much will had many requirement but pay less. knowing nothing will said you charge too high. knowing little bit, then you said what he will said yes yes yes (because he can understand what we said and easy to pay money cause he know software is expensive).