新手求助，前辈们的介绍。

Orochimaru

我就是听到onkyo608的爆炸抢声比denon1911有力，onkyo608听歌就。。然后国外有onkyo609了.
civic_hybrid 发表于 20-4-2011 05:53 PM

我在用onkyo 608，常拿来听歌，不会差啊。对咯，美国那里上个月出了609了，本地不懂有了吗？ 不过我是去年10月尾买的。
除了amp， 喇叭也是很重要，可能你试听的时候喇叭是偏向电影的吧。我用的喇叭是Energy TAKE CLASSIC5.1
+EnergyCB 5 2.0 （卫星喇叭+书架喇叭组成7.1）， onkyo608 里面有好多设置的，还需要慢慢去玩， 比如equalizer， +/-treble&bass， 设置喇叭距离， 喇叭hz，声音模式（很多选择，不过听歌我通常就选stereo 而已，也就是2.1声道而已），个人觉得看电影和听歌都做得很不错，不像通常的家庭影院系统，看电影ok，，但听歌就差强人意了

civic_hybrid

回复 20# edwintey

Rm2500 以下咯！因为要上7。1 喇叭。

civic_hybrid

回复 21# Orochimaru

我是要用2颗站地HI-FI喇叭(有用到2.0的power map )+ Edifier S550 做衛星, 組7.1 .頭大中.

edwintey

回复  edwintey

Rm2500 以下咯！因为要上7。1 喇叭。
civic_hybrid 发表于 22-4-2011 05:34 PM

這個價位應該可以買到：
Pioneer VSX-920 或 VSX-1020 （或許會超出預算）

Denon AVR-1911

Yamaha RX-V667， 或者再增加一點上 RX-V767

Onkyo 我就不亂說，等其他的行內人告訴你。

其實選購 Amp 的同時還要考慮你要配甚麽喇叭，因為兩者是有著關係的，都要一併考慮。

civic_hybrid

我也看上Yamaha RX-V667,但Yamaha RX-V671 會不會很快來.Pioneer VSX-1020會貴嗎?功力怎樣?
用2颗站地HI-FI喇叭(有用到2.0的power map )+ Edifier S550 做衛星, 組7.1<-主要

civic_hybrid

YamahaRX-V667 的前上方喇叭有什么用？

edwintey

YamahaRX-V667 的前上方喇叭有什么用？
civic_hybrid 发表于 23-4-2011 07:55 PM

那是 Yamaha 沿用已久的 front Presence Speaker，可以使前半場的音場更為廣闊，甚至將中置的喇叭音效位置提高。

civic_hybrid

front Presence Speaker 是和7。1喇叭加在一起用变9。1，还是要用回7。1里的2粒做front Presence Speaker。谢谢

frankling

说真的presense怎样用我也不太懂。是不是就像是front height？还是front wide？如果用了会不会把overall 的output的力度也降低一些呢？待会儿要谷歌看看了

frankling

在bluray。com的forum找到的，虽然是2008年的帖了，我读了读，应该还是适用的。不过是英文的，要慢慢看了。http://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/41243-yamaha-presence-speakers-explained.html


There have been a lot of questions floating around the board regarding Yamaha receivers and what “Presence speakers” are used for. There have been some high-level explanations provided by various members, but I thought I would take a stab at a more detailed explanation. I hope it proves helpful.

Overview
Presence speakers are part of an overall technology that Yamaha calls Digital Signal Processing (DSP). DSP is an attempt to recreate the sonic characteristics of external environments and apply them to music and film soundtracks in one’s home. To understand how this works, we first need to think about sounds and how we perceive them in real-world environments.

When we listen to live music, we are not just hearing the actual instruments being played. We are also hearing the environment in which they are being played. If we could listen to a violin in a controlled anechoic chamber, it would sound dull and flat. We might be hard pressed to even recognize it as a violin. That is because when we listen to a violin played in a concert hall, we hear not only the original sounds emanating from the instrument, but the countless reflections, echoes, and reverberations of that sound as it interacts with the physical environment, arriving at our ears at different times and from different directions. The combination of original and ambient sounds determines the overall character of what that particular instrument sounds like in that particular environment.

The architects who designed the great music venues in the world understood acoustics and the interaction of sound and environment. The great concert halls were “tuned”, much as fine musical instruments are tuned by their creators, to enrich the original sounds of musical instruments with the characteristics of the environment. Every real-world venue has its own sonic characteristics, its own sonic “footprint”.

DSP Technology
Yamaha DSP technology seeks to recreate these sonic footprints of real-world venues in the home environment. To accomplish this, Yamaha travels to famous venues and electronically measures the specific ambient characteristics of each environment. They start by placing multiple microphones at strategic locations within the environment and recording known test sounds emanating from the sound stage. Each microphone receives a mixture of original sound and ambient sound. Because the original test sounds are known constants, they can be effectively “subtracted” from the composite sound, leaving only the “blueprint” of the ambient sounds. (A gross oversimplification, but this is the basic idea.) Once the “blueprint” is created, it can be applied to any sound source to recreate the ambient characteristics of that sound in that particular environment.

In Practice
So how can DSP technology be applied to the home environment? Unfortunately, we can’t just create the ambient sounds and mix them in with the original sounds. The results would sound muddy and artificial. In a real-world venue, ambient sounds arrive at our ears from every direction. To recreate this at home, the ambient sounds need to originate from locations physically distinct from the original sound source (the main speakers). For ambience originating from behind the listener, the surround channels can be employed. However, for ambience originating from in front of the listener, we need an extra pair of speakers. Hence the need for front presence speakers.

The front presence speakers should be located higher above and to the outside of the main front speakers. Because they reproduce only ambient sounds, they do not need to be as large as, or of the same quality as, the main speakers. Small bookshelf or satellite speakers are perfectly adequate.

It should be noted that Yamaha’s flagship receiver, the RX-Z11 also provides for a set of rear presence speakers. More on this later.

Musical Applications
Yamaha calls the sonic blueprints of environments “sound fields”, and several different sound fields are provided to match different types of music. Different receiver models feature different sound fields. You should experiment with different styles of music and different sound fields. There are concert hall fields for classical music, jazz club fields for jazz and acoustic music, cathedral fields for organ and choir music, and larger venue fields for electric music. All are modeled after real-world venues. But don’t feel limited by the names Yamaha has given the sound fields. Try a jazz ensemble in one of the concert halls. Let your ears be your guide.

The overall effect should be subtle and realistic. If you are “hearing” the ambience, it is probably too loud in relation to the original sound. You should only notice the effect if you turn it off. The goal is realism. You should be able to close your eyes and believe you are somewhere else, listening in a real venue.

All of the sound fields have configurable parameters and you should feel free to experiment with them if you don’t like the factory settings (you can always restore the factory defaults). You can make a sound field larger or smaller, more or less reverberant. But always remember: less is more and the goal is realism.

Surround Sound
Yamaha originally developed DSP technology to enhance musical recordings, but it can also be applied to movie soundtracks and surround-sound recordings. A movie theater is just another real-world venue and has its own sonic blueprint, just like a concert hall, and Yamaha provides several movie theater sounds fields from which to choose.

Unfortunately, when we move beyond stereo musical recordings, things get a little more complicated. For multi-channel movie soundtracks with up to 5.1 channels, sound fields can still be applied. However, since movie soundtracks employ the surround channels for discrete sounds, the generated rear ambience must be mixed in with the original surround material and the result can sometimes sound muddy.

The front surrounds provide an added bonus that Yamaha calls “dialog lift”. Some of the center channel information is mixed in with the front surrounds, resulting in raising the perceived height of the center channel. For those with large screens, specifically front projection setups, this can make it appear as if dialog is originating from the screen itself instead of below it. The relative “height” of the lift can be adjusted by the user and the setting can be saved uniquely for each sound field.

When we move to 6.1 and 7.1 soundtracks and add rear surround channels, things get even messier. For all but Yamaha’s flagship receivers, the rear surround channels and the front presence channels share the same internal amplifiers. This means that the rear surrounds and the front presence channels are mutually exclusive—they can’t play simultaneously. The receiver decides which pair to enable and which pair to disable based on the source material. For 5.1 and fewer channel sources, the front presence channels are enabled and the rear surrounds are disabled. For 6.1 and 7.1 channel sources, the front channels are disabled and the rear surrounds are enabled. This means that for 6.1 and 7.1 soundtracks, the front ambience gets mixed in with the main speakers and the results can sound muddy. You also lose the dialog lift effect.

Many users don’t like to apply sound fields to movie sources because of the above mentioned limitations, and I can understand that. Personally I stick with the “Standard Movie” sound field for 5.1 sources and disable DSP entirely for 6.1 and 7.1 material. The one movie sound field I reallydo like is “Mono Movie” for older monophonic films. However, the factory settings are way too echoic for my tastes and I have dialed down all of the effect parameters to make it more subtle.

[Note: For Yamaha’s flagship receivers the above limitations don’t exist. The current top-of-the-line RX-Z11 has 11.2 channels with discrete amplification for each (7 discrete channels, front and rear stereo presence channels, and stereo subwoofer channels!) If you can afford one of these, you can afford a custom installer and you don’t need my opinion.]

Closing Thoughts
Yamaha’s DSP technology can provide a very realistic “you-are-there” experience for both musical and movie material. IMHO, it is much more effective for music sources than for film. Remember that all of the sound field parameters are fully configurable, so if you don’t like the factory defaults you can tailor them to your own taste. You can also disable DSP entirely and listen to the unadulterated source material. The ultimate goal is realism: to recreate the experience of listening to music and films in real-world environments and venues. Experiment and enjoy.


========================================================


还有一个网友的setup图。他的front right front left吊得蛮高的，但是上方的两个跟我的setup一样，我现在的setup很头痛，我的是LX60，虽然有thx的7.1，但是却是thx要求的左右surround，我怎样调都不行，反正用了超过两年了，就想换掉它了。

civic_hybrid

一般front right front left在地上，front Presence Speaker在近天花板的位置。效果还在研究。

civic_hybrid

civic_hybrid

civic_hybrid

那喇叭方前上好，还是后面左右好？

kenlabs

那喇叭方前上好，还是后面左右好？
civic_hybrid 发表于 25-4-2011 04:16 PM

你的意思是FRONT喇叭？
我可以很肯定的说，FRONT喇叭一定要放置在CENTER喇叭的同排或前面都可以。
一定不可以放在比CENTER喇叭更后面的位置。

FRONT喇叭高度~ 高音单元的高度是耳朵水平位就最理想了。

FRONT和CENTER喇叭都能放在SCREEN(TV/PROJECTOR)前面和后面。只要calibrate得妥当就OK了。

kenlabs

说真的presense怎样用我也不太懂。是不是就像是front height？还是front wide？如果用了会不会把overall 的 ...
frankling 发表于 24-4-2011 08:18 AM

Yamaha的presence channel (早期称为“Front Effect Channel" )
从喇叭的摆设/高度，看起来与DolbyProLogicIIz或Audyssey DSX的Front Height没两样。
但音效就有分别。

Yamaha presence - 主要是配合Yamaha的CinemaDSP功能，把你的监听室模拟成另一个空间。
这一切归功于CinemaDSP。它把音效的初期反射，后期反射等等进行调教。
简单一点来说，Yamaha presence把戏院的空间感搬回家！

DolbyProLogicIIz或Audyssey DSX的Front Height - 並非以DSP的方式增添空間感，而是「萃取」原本就存在於聲軌裡的無指向性環境聲響（像是風聲、雨聲、配樂與空間殘響等）
想知道更多请参考搞音真经


Front Wide - 目前只有Audyssey DSX有此声道。年尾或明年，类似DSX 11.1的DTS版本会从后赶上，并称为“DTS Neo:X”。
想知道更多请参考搞音真经


到底那个比较好。
你想拥有好像戏院般那种广阔的音效吗？
如果要的话，Yamaha就是你的首选！

manchow1984

那里可以买到喇叭脚架呢??