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阿罗汉阿姜曼證實有成佛的菩萨道！！！
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本帖最后由 ombenzasatohung 于 29-1-2016 11:09 AM 编辑
刚刚看到这一篇还没看完就放上来分享，喜极而泣，SADHU！ SADHU！
阿姜曼也講到他自己在過去久遠的前生也曾發過與阿姜索類似的願，唯一不同之處在於他是發願成佛。跟阿姜索一樣，他也是因精進的禪思，發現前生的願力反成他今生解脫的阻礙，於是在他開始修持頭陀行之後，他也放棄了前生的願力，因為他瞭解到如果要成佛，那得要花上一段非常不可思議的歲月，其間還得要歷經無數次的生死輪迴，承受不斷的生老病死，嚐盡數不清的生離死別及悲歡離合，對他來說實在是太沈重也太遙不可及了。----作者/摩訶布瓦尊者 《阿姜曼尊者傳》
http://www.charity.idv.tw/r/r3.htm
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发表于 29-1-2016 01:49 PM
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我在重读英文版，发现中文版的翻译有很多问题，最好是中英对照。
这里给楼主纠正一下，阿迦索是发愿成辟支佛，而不是一般意义的佛陀：“Ãcariya Mun told us that, once, in ages past, Ãcariya Sao had resolved to become a Paccekabuddha.”（page 17）
根据《尊者阿迦曼传》的解释，涅盘不尽然是我们一般所理解的那样，完全灭尽了直到什么都不剩下，似乎还是有一个心体的存在，阿迦曼似乎没有去否定他，也没直接肯定他。这个心似乎还可以显现功能的，而不是全无作用。所以在传记中，已入般涅盘的阿罗汉圣者还可以显现和他对话，祝贺他证悟阿罗汉，甚至为他显现这些阿罗汉们以前进入般涅盘的整个过程。以下是一些节录：
The only ones who deserve the designation “Nibbãna” are those individuals who have completely eradicated the kilesas* from their hearts – extinguishing them forever, even while they are physically alive. At the moment of passing away, they have no lingering attachments that could bind them to the round of saÿsãra – not even to the body that’s starting to decompose. Absolutely no attachment or concern for anything anywhere exist in their hearts. （那些心意已经绝对净化而仍然保持着身体的人，在他们身体分解的时候，可以说是进入般涅盘的状况）Thus they bid final farewell to the world with no trepidation, having no expectations of experiencing karmic consequences in another realm of existence – a source of endless frustration. The heart that has attained absolute freedom is constant, unchanging, and wholly contented. It harbors no expectations at all concerning conventional realities such as the body. Therefore, not even an atom of the conventional world could enter and affect the heart’s state of total purity. The word “Nibbãna” refers to the total purity of one who is never agitated or melancholy – neither sorrowful in life nor regretful at death – but always imperturbably unchanging throughout.———— <Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera - Spiritual Biography> by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno, page 270
It is the heart that exists as heaven or magga, phala and Nibbãna, and the heart that achieves these attainments. （是心去升天或入道或证果和进入般涅盘）Nothing else could possibly achieve them....———— <Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera - Spiritual Biography> by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno, page 239
Arahants also came regularly to hold inspirational conversations on Dhamma with Ãcariya Mun. Each Arahant showed him the manner in which his passing away into total Nibbãna had occurred. Some were Arahants who had passed away in the Chiang Dao Cave, while others had attained total Nibbãna elsewhere. Such demonstrations were accompanied by an inspiring explanation of the sequence of events that had taken place....."（也有一些阿罗汉弟子来拜访他，互相问候致意。偶然地，他们会为他示现他们逝世的方式。这包括了那些在那个山洞里逝世和在其它地方逝世者。他们总是用示范来给他解释）All Arahants possess superb qualities within their hearts that are most amazing – intrinsic virtues unsurpassed in the human and deva worlds. Each Arahant who appears in the world following the Lord Buddha does so only with the greatest of difficulty. Each is like a gold mine cropping up spontaneously in the middle of an emperor’s imperial city – a very rare occurrence indeed. An Arahant’s lifestyle contrasts sharply with worldly lifestyles because an Arahant’s life is invigorated by Dhamma. Although his body is composed of the same physical elements as those of everyone else, the heart maintaining that body is pure, and such purity of heart invigorates every aspect of the physical element. You yourself have now completed the task of filtering from your heart all possible causes of existence, thus becoming one of the Arahants. Being one whose heart will never again give rise to birth and existence, you have become another incomparable source of merit for the world to venerate. So we’ve come to visit you now to show our appreciation for your achievement, which because of its enormous difficulty, is seldom accomplished. Although many people desire to attain what you have, very few succeed when they are faced with the difficulties. People born into this world instinctively cling to their parents and relatives for support. Hardly any of them realize the importance of relying on their own hearts as their mainstay. The vast majority of people just drift aimlessly, accomplishing nothing of real value – their numbers are beyond reckoning. So the appearance in the world of a fully-enlightened Arahant is a remarkable event that benefits living beings throughout all the world systems. Your attainment of purity has made you an enormous boonfor humans, devas, and brahmas alike. You are also well-versed in theuniversal language of the heart, which is far more important than any other form of communication. All the Buddhas, and certain categories of Arahants, use the language of the heart when giving assistance to living beings, for it is the universal language of sentient beings throughout the universe. Contacting and teaching nonphysical beings is achieved exclusively by means of this universal form of communication. Those communicating in the language of the heart can understand each other much more quickly and easily than would normally be the case.”（你已经给予人类和肉眼所看不见的众生广泛的协助，因为你精通於心意的语言，那是超越叁界中所有的语言，每一位佛陀和某些类型的阿罗汉，都曾经使用这个共通的语言来帮助别人，尤其是肉眼所看不见的众生，因此这个语言大大地有助於促进心意之间的沟通）————<Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera - Spiritual Biography> by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno, page 226-227
上述几段文字如果拿来对照《观无量寿经》的内容就很有意思，观经曰：‘诸佛如来是法界身，入一切众生心想中。是故汝等心想佛时，是心即是三十二相，八十随形好。是心作佛，是心是佛。’
* Kleshas in Buddhism, are mental states that cloud the mind and manifest in unwholesome actions. Kleshas include states of mind such as anxiety, fear, anger, jealousy, desire, depression, etc. Contemporary translators use a variety of English words to translate the term kleshas, such as: afflictions, defilements, destructive emotions, disturbing emotions, negative emotions, mind poisons, etc.————Wikipedia
仅供参考。合十。
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楼主 |
发表于 29-1-2016 07:37 PM
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中文版是说，阿迦索是发愿成辟支佛, 但阿姜曼是发愿成佛，是两个人。 但现在我没时间查看英文版的，。。
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楼主 |
发表于 30-1-2016 01:54 AM
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中文的翻译没错阿，我找到英文版的了。
Ãcariya Mun related that in ages past he had made a similar resolution – in his case, a solemn vow to become a Buddha. As with Ãcariya Sao, intensifying his efforts at meditation caused Ãcariya Mun to recollect this long-standing intention, and this underlying attachment made him reluctant to strive for the attainment of Nibbãna in his present life. Ãcariya Mun renounced his vow to be a Buddha only after he began practicing dhutanga kammaååhãna, for he then realized that its fulfillment would take far too long. It required eons of traversing the round of saÿsãra: being born, growing old, becoming ill, and dying over and over again, enduring misery and pain indefinitely.
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发表于 30-1-2016 04:08 PM
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师兄，我不是这样的意思。我是正在重读此书的英文版，间中也有发一些中英对照的帖子，其中发现很多地方的中英对照内容不尽如意，觉得英译版的内容比较详解和贴切。所以建议你有时间的话，可以考虑去读英文版。
至于阿迦索的事情，我之前可能读太快了，以为你的内容是说他们一起发愿成佛，所以顺便提出这个事情，是我读错的话实在抱歉。其实我回帖主要是和你分享摘录的那些内容，而不是谈上述这些事情。
希望你从阅读尊者传记的过程中，继续得到法喜和增上修行得利益。末学随喜，合十。
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发表于 30-1-2016 05:10 PM
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菩萨道佛灭后500年后就有，如果你生在那个时代受菩萨道思想而发愿成佛应该证明不了什么，就好像两千后如果我还在轮回也证得宿命通，我也会看到当初我发愿成佛。问题是真正的大乘成佛之道，它的法源，教导，法次法向是不是来源自释迦摩尼佛？ |
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楼主 |
发表于 30-1-2016 09:04 PM
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本帖最后由 ombenzasatohung 于 30-1-2016 09:05 PM 编辑
我是偶尔在网上看到时才看了几篇，里面写了很多宗教神秘体验，不知道能不能信，现在查了一下来源，这应该是新版的《尊者阿姜曼傳》，可能跟你看你不一样。书里面还有很多不可思议的境界，那种境界里我太远了，你说的涅磐就是其一，这我知道就好，不敢乱说，但尊者阿姜曼对菩萨道的记载是清清楚楚的，这点我觉得很重要。总之他们修行的过程给我很大的启发。sadhu！ sadhu！
多年來在華文世界所流通的『尊者阿迦曼傳』係由曾銀湖居士依據「Mr. Siri Buddhasukh」由泰文所英譯的版本再中譯的。但遺憾的是該英譯本並不理想，不為作者「阿姜 摩訶布瓦尊者」所認同。由曾銀湖居士所中譯的版本，也就有著同樣的問題。
[size=+2]因此阿姜 摩訶布瓦尊者的一位美籍弟子「Bhikkhu Dick Silaratano」花了幾年時間將泰文版的尊者傳重新英譯，並在2003年出版。但由於發現了一些錯誤，班達森林寺(Baan Taad Forest Monastery)又於2004年發行了修訂版。 需要『英文版電子書』的法友，可從以下網頁下載。至於紙本印刷版，目前國外仍有機構在贈閱流通，但國內似乎並無結緣之處。
《阿姜曼尊者正傳》（新版《尊者阿姜曼傳》，陳在昕、喬正一聯合翻譯。）
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楼主 |
发表于 30-1-2016 09:15 PM
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你是说阿姜曼在说这句话时[他放棄了前生的願力，因為他瞭解到如果要成佛，那得要花上一段非常不可思議的歲月，其間還得要歷經無數次的生死輪迴，承受不斷的生老病死，嚐盡數不清的生離死別及悲歡離合，對他來說實在是太沈重也太遙不可及了]是在妄语？ 还是记载这句话的作者/摩訶布瓦尊者在妄语？
你觉得事实上，这是你的意思呢，还是阿罗汉阿姜曼的意思？
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发表于 30-1-2016 10:15 PM
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基于一些理由，末学以为我们都不是适合（或有资格）去评论上述问题的浅基弟子，一来在作者泰国佛教界是声望崇高的高僧大德，他是当今泰王的皈依师父，泰王身边的国师很多都是当代高僧（有些应该都有神通例如他心通吧），泰王不可能没有充份的提劝下，就去随意皈依师父。二来有相当多的资料（甚至从他的著作里可以看到蛛丝马迹），传说阿迦摩诃布瓦可能是当代少数的阿罗汉之一（至少也应该是证果的高僧），要是我们胡乱揣测错误造成毁谤，那个口业的后果是很严重的，还是避免去妄谈。三来，《阿迦曼传》完成的时候，阿迦曼才圆寂二十年，他的弟子很多还在世，要是此文有诸多不实之处，森林派的大德们不可能坐视不理，也不会允许这部著作流通到今天。四来，作者在书中已经说了，这部书不是他的独力完成的记录，前半部分的内容主要来自阿迦曼的资深弟子（作者是森林僧众当中比较年轻的一位）的回忆，只有后半部分才是他的直接回忆（因为他稍后才加入）。阿迦曼圆寂以后，他曾到各地去收集在世弟子的回忆，然后将这些回忆内容集结整理出来，他在著作中也提及多个名字（都是森林僧的当代高僧），如果这些内容来自作者的妄语，必然会受到其他在世弟子的指出和纠正。基于这些原因，末学认为这本著作内容，应该是高度可信的。所以末学不敢妄谈。
Ãcariya Mun was one of the Arahants of this present age. He passed away not so long ago on November 10, 1949, about 20 years ago.———— <Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera - Spiritual Biography> by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno
Ãcariya Mun conducted higher Dhamma teaching only within the circle of his close disciples. But the author has somewhat of an irrepressible
nature and cannot sit still; so, I have gone around, collecting oral accounts from all the ãcariyas today who lived with Ãcariya Mun in the past and are his disciples. I’ve recorded this information so that the reader may know something of his practice, even though it is not a complete account. Ãcariya Mun’s mode of practice was so uniquely resolute and uncompromising that one could surely say that none of his disciples can match him in the austerities he performed, the noble virtues he perfected, and the inner knowledge he so skillfully mastered. To this day he remains unexcelled.———— <Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera - Spiritual Biography> by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno
Many disciples of his who became senior ãcariyas are still alive today. Some of them I have already mentioned by name. Ãcariya Mun’s senior disciples include such well-known ãcariyas as Ãcariya Sing and Ãcariya Mahã Pin from Ubon Ratchathani, Ãcariya Thet from Tha Bo in Nong Khai, Ãcariya Fan from Sakon Nakhon, Ãcariya Khao of Wat Tham Klong Phen in Udon Thani, Ãcariya Phrom from Dong Yen village of Nong Han district in Udon Thani, Ãcariya Lee of Wat Asokaram in Samut Prakan, Ãcariya Chob and Ãcariya Lui from Loei province, Ãcariya Sim and Ãcariya Tei from Chiang Mai, and Ãcariya Kongma from Sakon Nakhon. There are still many others whose names I cannot recall. Each of these ãcariyas possesses certain exceptional qualities setting him apart from the rest. Each is outstanding in his own distinct way, and all are worthy of the highest respect.———— <Venerable Acariya Mun Bhuridatta Thera - Spiritual Biography> by Acariya Maha Boowa Nanasampanno
仅供同修参考。合十。
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发表于 31-1-2016 08:32 PM
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你是否有聽說過佛陀時代的阿羅漢或者佛陀自作證在定中看見諸佛或者阿羅漢？
如果真有這事，這件事一定是普遍現象。
經典中沒有任何記載關於定中見阿羅漢的事情。
但是經典中明確記載在舍利佛要般涅槃向佛陀辭行時明確有說這一時刻是我最後一次看見佛陀，從此不會在相見。
所以對與阿姜曼的事我是持否定態度的並卻要對此說法提出嚴厲批判。
舍利佛是阿羅漢這是明確的，但是阿姜曼是不是阿羅漢這件事是不明確的。 |
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发表于 31-1-2016 11:25 PM
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本帖最后由 jezz 于 1-2-2016 11:25 AM 编辑
正巧不久前在英文佛法論壇看到“佛與阿姜曼交談？”的帖子。帖里提到對于這本傳記的異議，包括可能受到大乘佛法的影響等等。最有趣的是提到泰國出家剃眉毛的傳統，以及出家人應該穿怎樣的鞋。大家猜猜看，禪定中看到的阿羅漢，有沒眉毛，穿怎樣的鞋？
另一個帖就提到一位師父認為看到阿羅漢與佛，都只是禪相(nimitta)，譬如看到過去世存在過的阿羅漢，但這些只是看到過去發生過的事，并非真正有佛及阿羅漢在禪定者的定中現場出現與之交談。
我想強調一個重點，這本傳記是阿姜曼的弟子所著，評論時不要搞錯對象了。
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发表于 1-2-2016 02:08 PM
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本帖最后由 第二 于 1-2-2016 02:10 PM 编辑
這是論壇裡那位bhante分享在梵網經的記誦，覺得不錯所以找了中文版的。
“Bhikkhus, just as when the stalk of a bunch of mangoes has been cut, all the mangoes on it go with it, just so the Tathāgata’s link with becoming has been cut. As long as the body subsists, devas and humans will see him. But at the breaking-up of the body and the exhaustion of the life-span, devas and humans will see him no more.”
— Brahmajāla Sutta
比丘們！如來已切斷引導有的身體住立，只要身體住立，天與人們都看見他，[但]以身體的崩解，隨後生命耗盡，天與人們都看不見他。
比丘們！猶如被砍下的芒果串樹枝，任何結在樹枝上的芒果全都跟著落下。同樣的，比丘們！如來已切斷引導有的身體住立，只要身體住立，天與人們都看見他，[但]以身體的崩解，隨後生命耗盡，天與人們都看不見他。 |
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发表于 1-2-2016 02:37 PM
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相應部21.1中，大目揵連說佛陀以神通來見他，但沒說清楚是否在禪定中見面。不過就算是的話，也是佛陀在世時發生的：
...
學友們！我以尋與伺的平息，自信，一心，進入後住於無尋、無伺，定而生喜、樂的第二禪。
學友們！當我以此住處住時，與尋俱行的想與作意生起。
學友們！那時，世尊以神通來見我後，這麼說：『目揵連！目揵連！不要對聖默放逸，婆羅門！請你將心安頓在聖默上，請你將心統一在聖默上，請你將心定在聖默上。』
學友們！過些時候，我又以尋與伺的平息，自信，一心，進入後住於無尋、無伺，定而生喜、樂的第二禪。
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发表于 1-2-2016 02:45 PM
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楼主 |
发表于 1-2-2016 03:27 PM
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本帖最后由 ombenzasatohung 于 1-2-2016 03:28 PM 编辑
@jezz
首先我的题目的确不够严谨，我只是根据一般的叫法。
的确我也无法肯定尊者是不是阿罗汉。但就因为我知道我无法肯定的这个事实，我就不能说尊者不是阿罗汉，所以我无法反对文中的说法，这是事实。
而菩萨道的说法是被写了下来，阿姜曼也被认为作者认为是阿罗汉，这些都已经出现，这同样是事实，虽然事实可能不等于真实。
所以你觉得你说阿姜曼不是阿罗汉是恰当的吗？
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楼主 |
发表于 1-2-2016 03:52 PM
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我认为菩萨畏因并不是害怕，菩萨是因为深深观见缘起的因果，所以不做恶业，这是智慧，就像我们清楚吸烟的过患和危险，因为看见危险而避开，就是一种世间智慧，这里面并不存在恐惧，而是根据事实反应的智慧。
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发表于 1-2-2016 04:11 PM
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发表于 1-2-2016 05:04 PM
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发表于 1-2-2016 05:11 PM
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ombenzasatohung 发表于 1-2-2016 03:27 PM
@jezz
你這段寫的很可笑。。。。所以你觉得你说阿姜曼不是阿罗汉是恰当的吗？
一貫大乘手段。。。。哈哈哈 |
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发表于 1-2-2016 06:09 PM
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佛陀涅盘后，众生还能与佛沟通在【大乘佛经】很常见。
【观世音菩萨授记经】
佛言：「善男子！阿彌陀佛壽命無量百千億劫，當有終極。善男子！當來廣遠不可計劫，阿彌陀佛當般涅槃。般涅槃後，正法住世等佛壽命。在世滅後，所度眾生悉皆同等。佛涅槃後，或有眾生不見佛者，有諸菩薩，得念佛三昧，常見阿彌陀佛。
【地藏菩萨本愿经】中，光目女，婆罗门女也是和已涅槃的过去佛沟通。
至于佛涅槃后何以会出现，这是心法生起的命题，【解深密经】有论及。
爾時曼殊室利菩薩摩訶薩復白佛言。世尊。云何應知諸如來心生起之相？
佛告曼殊室利菩薩曰。善男子。夫如來者非心意識生起所顯。然諸如來有無加行心法生起。當知此事猶如變化。
曼殊室利菩薩復白佛言。世尊。若諸如來法身遠離一切加行。既無加行云何而有心法生起？
佛告曼殊室利菩薩曰。善男子。先所修習方便般若。加行力故。有心生起。善男子。譬如正入無心睡眠。非於覺悟而作加行。
由先所作加行勢力而復覺悟。又如正在滅盡定中。非於起定而作加行。由先所作加行勢力還從定起。如從睡眠及滅盡定心更生起。
如是如來由先修習。方便般若加行力故。當知復有心法生起。
曼殊室利菩薩復白佛言。世尊。如來化身。當言有心為無心耶。佛告曼殊室利菩薩曰。善男子。非是有心亦非無心。何以故。
無自依心故。有依他心故。
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